Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
skip to main |
skip to sidebar
Lionel, Charity, and Caleb
Searching God's Truth, in God's Word, for God's people
Why another blog?
There are few reasons this blog exists
1. Three heads are better than one. The bloggers will be Missy, Tyris and Lionel
2. This will be a Reformed Blog with a heavy emphasis on urban issues
3. We want to proclaim God's providence, while at the same time being culturally relevant. We love the dead guys, but God has continued to use both history and modern day believers to shape His people (a lot of blogs regurgetate while ignoring todays issues).
4. Our goal is to also challenge each other, our presuppositions, and to work through theology electronically (since we live in the south, midwest, and east coast) in hopes to become more like our Lord.
I pray that you will join us and point others to this blog. God bless.
1. Three heads are better than one. The bloggers will be Missy, Tyris and Lionel
2. This will be a Reformed Blog with a heavy emphasis on urban issues
3. We want to proclaim God's providence, while at the same time being culturally relevant. We love the dead guys, but God has continued to use both history and modern day believers to shape His people (a lot of blogs regurgetate while ignoring todays issues).
4. Our goal is to also challenge each other, our presuppositions, and to work through theology electronically (since we live in the south, midwest, and east coast) in hopes to become more like our Lord.
I pray that you will join us and point others to this blog. God bless.
Blog Roll
- A Lion Roars
- Between Two Worlds
- Blaque Tulip (Pastor Lance)
- Council of Reforming Churches
- Desiring God
- Light and Heat
- Lionel's Blog
- Lyrical Theology (Shai Linne)
- Melissa's Blog
- Non Nobis Domine (Pastor Anthony)
- Pastor John
- Pastor Steve Lawson
- Pulpit Magazine
- Pulpit Pimps (current issues in WOF)
- Pure Church (Pastor Thabiti)
- Recover the Gospel
- Semper Reformenda (Pastor Gunny)
- Team Pyro
- Timeless Faith
- Truth In the Innermost
- Tyris's Blog
Favorite Sites
Blog Archive
The Woods Family
Lionel, Charity, and Caleb
54 comments:
I need some of the cocaine that he has LOL. I wonder how long it's going to take this guy to realize that Jesus taught then, what the Jews teach today. It's really just that simple.
Hey CP,
Where you been bro? Missed you. Must we continue to defend this great faith, or are you going to gracefully cross over to the light-side homie? I hope your Christmas was well, holla at your family.
Hey Lionel,
You don't need to defend your faith against me. I fully support you guys and your beliefs. That Driscoll guy is indeed a character that I do not mind watching. I am still, always and forever, enlightened with humor. Our Christmas was wonderful even though I had to work, which in itself was a blessing.
Charles in the house! Where you been at boy. I thought we wooped you so bad last time that you didn't like us anymore. LOL God bless
Driscoll is one of those individual I am still, trying to figuring out. Honestly, I need to do more homework. But he strikes me, from what i have seen and do know, that he is kind of like the dead clock--he is EXACTLY right twice a day. The rest of the time...
BTW, Lionel,
Go to my blog. There is some REAL music for you there. None a that hip-hop. Just kidding,
Happy New Year Bro
Just look at the Emergent Church, and some of their conferences and you'll see that, that's where he's coming from.
There's some semantics between Emerging and Emergent, but I see little difference. While he may seem to distance himself from MacLaren and the crew, he's still continues to provide leadership in the so-called conversation. (I personally believe they are talking loud and saying nothin')
Just because a cat holds to the TULIP and covenant theology, brothers think the dude's solid.
I wouldn't blame it dope, I see cats that are really building themselves evangelical reps, and reformed reps, and people are buying into personalities. Let's dig deeper and find out where the cats are really coming from.
Well put LIONel,
I have been looking and asking other who know more about him and am coming to the same conclusions. I have found some stiff said by Mr. Driscoll that seems sound, but then he throws in some pretty offensive (and not just to my own sensibilities) language that negates anything "solid" that might have come forth.
He might be more on target than say Rob Bell (shudder), but I am finding imply too much unwholesome speech.
It makes me regret even more the times that I have spoken or written in crude, vulgar or even profane manners. Men like Driscoll and others need prayer a lot more than our jobs do, or our houses do. And so do we. I think that is what should be clear no matter what.
Keep on chuggin bro,
your so-not-cultured-or-cityfied-country
-bumpkin-broken-down-cowboy
Sam
Hey CP,
I am glad you had a good Christmas and I hope your New Year was even better. I was thinking one of your resolutions should be to become a Jr. Disciple under Tyris and myself and we will teach you all the ins and outs of the faith LOL!!!! I hope that you and your family have a good 2008 bro!
SJ and Soul Theologian,
I believe Driscoll has repented of the coarse joking and language you can google it to find where. As it relates to the Gospel, and Christian living I find no fault in the Acts 29 fellowship. The only struggle I have with them is the fact that they are very young, with no real leadership over the age of 40. Piper is now heavily involved and will be speaking at the next Resurgence Conference.
I listen to a co-laborer of Driscoll here in Dallas name Matt Chandler and the brother is an awesome speaker and leader. These brother bleeds the gospel. I think we have to be careful of labeling people because they don't fit our prototype pastor. I am not saying this is what you are doing here, but I do believe that this is what is going on. Bell, Spong, and MacClaren are heretics, not brothers on the same line. They deny way too many truths of the faith and I don't label them brothers.
On the other hand Acts 29 guys are Reformed brethern who may be a bit to modern for our liking but are solid none the less. They consistently preach the essentials and will not waver. They have a high Christology and high view of the scriptures. I believe the language to be the issue, but what pastor don't we have a problem with. Piper has used some questionable language and MacArthur can be one of the most divisive individuals in the universe. I think this is a pereference thing. I think we have to give them more time, but as for now, I am enjoying the teaching and preaching coming from Driscoll and Chandler.
Correction:
I meant to say "Well put Soul".
Forgive me, I was home teached.
Linoel,
I was unaware of any repentance. If so, that is quite commendable. There is some good discussion over at Pyro right now about the good aspects of Driscoll and the not as good. You should check it out when you get a chance.
As always, it is good see you at the lion's den, and good to be seen here. Always a blessing.
Oh, if you can't make it to the True Church Conference next month, I'll see about getting some DVDs or CDs or something to send you. I'm looking forward to going. That church seems to have a deep bench when it comes to preachers.
Lionel,
If Driscoll repented of the profane language that's a bonus.
I'm not a traditionalist so I don't have a preference or a prototype pastor. I'm more into upholding the characteristics of the qualifications found in the pastoral epistles.
I can respect your six degrees of seperation, friend of a friend. I certainly believe Driscoll and his boy knows the gospel, and has probably preached and teached it.
He has called the leaders of the EC liberals. He doesn't hold to the views of MacLaren on homosexuality, that's great. And I believe he may have even called MacLaren on it.
I don't believe he's on the level with Bell or Spong.
I don't have a problem with a guy being modern so to speak. I believe God calls us with our own personalities in tact.
I don't have a problem with his age or the ages of the cats in Acts 29.
I'll take your word that he's a good brother. My concerns are connections within the EC, and the contemplative spirituality.
And this is the first time I've gone public with thoughts on the dude. I have been patient for a minute. Time will tell.
And believe it or not I'm pulling for the guy.
No ad hominems, intended.
SJ I heard someone say it ain't where ya, its where ya at!
Soul,
ma momma done learnd me ma grammer skoolin.
Agreed on Driscoll. I really pray he will continue to grow an dpull not only away from the emergent/contemplative/emerging crowd, but that he will (continue) to be pulled by God's Grace to more and more Scriptural convictions thus equipping him to be a the leader I wonder if he is yet qualified to be. Let's really put our money where our mouth is and pray earnestly for him and all the rest--even more for false teachers like Pagitt, McLaren, and so on.
In Christ,
Your Blood Brother
Tyris,
Happy New Year!!! Rest assure that I was not whipped at all throughout the other debates. I simply rested my case because none of you could prove me wrong. After a while, it became clear to me that it was more important for you guys to believe your faith than it was for me to continue to put biblical facts in front of you.
I must say, it's funny how you guys try to wing me over to the "light-side" when it is you whom turn to the "Book" when the light shine upon you. Your faith is truly for you and you only!
PS: I won't dislike anyone because of their defending of what they believe in.
S.J.
Amen!
I forgot a word so let me re-phrase my statement so it will have the zing.
It ain't where ya "from", its where ya at!
Peace.
Yo'
Blood Brother
Soul Theologian
Charles, just like old times I can always count on you for a good good laugh. For this I thank you brother, it has been a long tired day for me. So from the bottom of my heart, thanks again. I am not going there bro, LOL. I wish we could go back to Lionel's old blog to see some of those hardcore facts that you provided. You know, for the life of me I cannot remember any hardvcore biblical facts??? Maybe Lionel can jog my memory? You have a good new year brother. Love you with the Love of Christ.
P.S. If I am decieved brother, please point us crazy christians in the right direction, I want that type of love from you and anyone else who see's me in error-GOD Bless
Tyris,
As long as you follow what you believe in faithfully, then you are headed in the right direction. As for hardcore facts, well, they don't really exist as far as our debates are concerned. When it all boils down, no one can prove anything, since we were not around back in the biblical days. All we can do is believe. The conflict comes by way of non-tolerance. People feel threatend due to their lack of faith in their own belief, which then transforms into defense. This is where the whole "...We must defend the faith..." stuff comes from. No need to admit it, we all know this is true.
Hey CP,
I posted something on tolerance, which I think is redefined in our generation. Tolerance as a definition today means accept opposing beliefs as equal truth. The Webster's dictionary is to allow for other positions but you are not necessarily embrace them.
Charles,
You say:
"As long as you follow what you believe in faithfully, then you are headed in the right direction. As for hardcore facts, well, they don't really exist as far as our debates are concerned."
True faith in the All Knowing God, the Lord of Hosts and so forth will never see "faith" like that.
"When it all boils down", that sort of faith says, "I really don't know, but I like this idea". That is not the Biblical definition of faith.
True faith, real, God-given Faith does not tolerate an idea that it likes. It knows what is true without any doubt and without "tolerance" to any other "idea".
Faith from God does not tolerate anything that in any way contradicts what God has told us to be true. Unfortunately, that is where some stop and judge faith as unloving, or actually remain unloving themselves, not taking faith through to its completion--love. But love does not tolerate either, it can't possibly bare the thought of someone not KNOWING as it does the wonderful and matchless Grace of Jesus.
Faith, BIBLICAL faith, KNOWS. It has no doubts, it has no thoughts of "well, I wasn't there". we did not need to witness the events of old in first person. The Spirit bares witness for us. That is why true faith is a miracle.
Lionel-
tol·er·ance /ˈtɒlərəns/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[tol-er-uhns]
–noun 1. a fair, objective, and permissive attitude toward those whose opinions, practices, race, religion, nationality, etc., differ from one's own; freedom from bigotry.
When I use the word tolerance, I use it in the defined term. Hold on to this so that you don't continue to fine definitions that support your own theory.
SJ Walker-
I don't think you fully understand the history of debates I've enjoyed with Lionel and Tyris.
As you quoted: "When it all boils down", that sort of faith says, "I really don't know, but I like this idea". That is not the Biblical definition of faith.
You lost me with the word, "Biblical definition". You SJ, I don't follow the Bible every since I studied it's history. So understand that you won't convince me of anything just by simply quoting the Bible. I finally figured out why the Bible is interpreted so differently amongst people. As for religion, all it does is divide and creates the lie that we are not all Gods Children.
Charles,
vac·il·late
Pronunciation:
\ˈva-sə-ˌlāt\
Function:
intransitive verb
Inflected Form(s):
vac·il·lat·ed; vac·il·lat·ing
Etymology:
Latin vacillatus, past participle of vacillare to sway, waver
To waver in mind, will, or feeling: hesitate in choice of opinions or courses.
"You lost me with the word, "Biblical definition"
Okay fine,
Here is where you lost me:
"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. For by it the elders obtained a good testimony.
By faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that the things which are seen were not made of things which are visible."
Ummmm... Okay...(SJ) I think. I'm not quite sure where I lost you, but it's okay to stay there. Also, I believe you are quoting Hebrews 11:1-3. Good try, but as I said before, understand that you won't convince me of anything just by simply quoting the Bible. I must say though, the verse is touching. Also, I don't sway too much. You get confused and misled that way. I'm Firm, though some might say I'm obstinate.
No Charles,
My dear man, you're not firm. You're standing on sand. It's a sorry sight.
You're honestly in my prayers,
And if you won't listen to Scripture, which is about all you'll get here and at my blog too, why do you come?
For someone who seems to speak of "logic" or something along those lines, that makes no sense. Just wondering. Not that you're not welcome here obviously, or even at mine, but I have to wonder what you're purpose is.
WOW!!! That's your big comeback. That's too weak. Also, Why pray for me? You don't know me and you wouldn't know what to pray for regarding me. You see, that's that fear I was speaking of. You have encountered someone with a different belief than you and it makes you uncomfortable. You more than likely will pray the God touches me and that I accept Christ as my personal Lord and Savior... SJ, Don't waste the thought or the prayer.
Also, I'm not here to change anyone or sway anyone toward how I feel. I've know Lionel most of my life and I only share a different view regarding Christianity. IE, though I am not a Christian, I have no intention of sullying Christianity. I understand how important it is for one to have a strong belief in their faith of choice. I also understand that discrediting ones religion or belief is one of the worst thing you can do to someone. So basically, when Christians say that christ is the only way, I say... Okay... that's true, but only according to the New Testament. As I have said though... I don't base my life on books written by man, which is what the Bible is, A book, written by men whom claim that these are the words of God, and yet they saw the need to EDIT Gods Words. WOW!!! That's Powerfully alarming... to me.
Just one quick question:
How does this:
"I also understand that discrediting ones religion or belief is one of the worst thing you can do to someone."
Fit with this:
"I finally figured out why the Bible is interpreted so differently amongst people. As for religion, all it does is divide and creates the lie that we are not all Gods Children."
It seems that is all you are trying to do with much of what you say. One of us says the Bible say "this" and we believe it to be so. You then do try to discredit that in some way even of not directly. You'll come at with perhaps a "come on, we all know this stuff is made up" angle, which tries to put words into my mouth that I would never say. That is an attempt to discredit someone's religion, in this case, the only true "religion". I can't make you believe what I believe, but I don't try to make you think I'm doing what meager things I can to help you see the Truth.
I am not ashamed of the fact that I will, if given the opportunity, always lay before you what the Truth is, WHETHER YOU BELIEVE IT OR NOT. If you come to faith, praise God, because it takes a miracle for anyone.
But don't tell me lies like you know it is "wrong" to try and discredit someone's religion when that is about all you have done in either blatant or veiled remarks.
Mock us if you wish; call us fools for believing in the God of Hosts. If that is all you can do, I'm afraid the battle you choose is so steeply uphill that you're already biting the ground. And yes, I have, am, and will continue to pray for your soul.
And it matters not Charles whether you think it ridiculous, or futile, or predictable. My prayer is not going to you. I am not trying to convince you of something per se. I am imploring God Himself to intercede for you. I would never pray that you "accept Jesus". You can't. Neither could I. I am praying for Him to call you. This is a much different thing Charles.
I am not here for debate. There is nothing to debate. I am here for people like you.
Lionel,
God Bless you Bro,
Grace and Peace,
Sam
Accept Christ, LOL. Thanks for this Sam, "And it matters not Charles whether you think it ridiculous, or futile, or predictable. My prayer is not going to you. I am not trying to convince you of something per se. I am imploring God Himself to intercede for you. I would never pray that you "accept Jesus". You can't. Neither could I. I am praying for Him to call you. This is a much different thing Charles.
" It is a shame that the world see us as these people who are looking for other people to make a decision. That is the farthest thing from a true Christian's mind. We know that God and God alone saves. Thanks for setting the record straight. Do some research on Calvinsm CHarles and stay away from that mess you are seeing on TBN or any other television ministry. Peace and Love you all.
SJ Walker
".."I finally figured out why the Bible is interpreted so differently amongst people. As for religion, all it does is divide and creates the lie that we are not all Gods Children."
Now, how exactly does this discredit Christianity. Am I wrong for believing we are all God's children. Not that my point is important to you, but you completely missed it.
Understand this; when I say, ...As for religion, all it does is divide and creates the lie that we are not all Gods Children." I am speaking about how you Christians are always dicrediting other religions, I.E., "...the only true "religion" as you say. That is arrogance in it's greatest form. You are so arrogant with your stance that you can't even respect the fact that I don't want you to pray for me... I honestly don't need you to. Why is it important that God calls me to believe as you do?
I don't know why it bothers people so much when someone else has a different belief or point of view. I only sound like I'm making remarks against your faith because I don't agree with eveything you have to say. Also, I did say that discrediting ones' religion was one of the worst thing you can do to someone, however I never said it was wrong to defend your faith. Seems like you're the one putting words in my mouth now and it's okay. People have always taken what they believe and put it in their own context. That's part of our imperfection. Lay the truth out for me... bro.
Charles,
What you see as arrogant is not arrogant at all. By being certain in my beliefs, unshakablly certain, it makes me confident, not arrogant. My Savior says that "I am the way, the Truth, and the Life, no man comes to the Father but by Me". Now, how honest would I be if I said I believed that, and then let everyone else go on with their miserable lives all the while saying: "well, I believe their wrong enough to be judged to hell--just as I was--but, I don't want to appear arrogant, so I'll shut my mouth and let them go on in darkness". I don't bring Light through my own self, the message I have been given to carry as a courier IS the Light. Don't shoot the messenger.
But remember that even if you do, (literally or figuratively) the light will not die with me, because it is not dependent on me. If I perish, or do not take this grand opportunity to share the news of deliverance for His people, then deliverance will arise from somewhere else.
So the real arrogance is this: I say I believe in the One True God, One Savior, but I don't have the guts to say so. What arrogance and cowardice it would be indeed to sit back and say to myself "that man is lost" or "I am glad I am not like him" and all the while I do nothing. If you really believe something, REALLY believe it, you have no choice but to try to make sure other understand and believe the same thing, especially if you believe it is a matter of eternal consequence. You try in your own way to make me believe, or disbelieve rather, all that I have thus far adhered to. I do not think it arrogant of you to try and convince me of something you think is "wrong". The only difference Charles is that by the Grace of God, I do believe the Truth and cannot be shaken from it.
The mistake you are making about me and several others is that we think we are right and we want everybody to agree with us or get out of the way. That we are better than others. That our "religion" is the only one worthwhile.
No, here's the truth:
GOD is right. Whether you like it, think so, or not.
We love because He gives us love and therefore we seek conversion and beseech the God of Heaven for souls like yours because we know the Truth and the Truth is that all who are not in Christ will be lost forever, and we are commanded to tell every last person we can that Truth, and that there is wonderful matchless hope in Christ.
Our "religion" is nothing. Our "religion" has no saving power, we put no stock in that itself. Our God is everything. If you want to call it religion, then you must define religion as a belief in the one single Truth that God is one in His Son Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit. He made and therefore has absolute dominion and power over all things and nothing occurs without His approval or permission. He was, and is, and shall follow forever. He calls men and women to Himself through His lovingkindness and Grace to two ends: His Glory, and our redemption.
He has given me His Truth to hold me together; He has given me the boots of the Gospel to march on the very stronghold of men's souls and lob the message of peace offered over their walls. He has given me a Shield of Faith to defend myself from any and all missiles of disbelief, antagonism, and skepticism. He has given me His Helmet that saved and continues to save my most precious organs from blow upon blow of prideful sin. He has given me a Chest Guard or Breastplate that not only protects me through HIS righteousness but also bares the Emblem of His Kingship. He also has given me my greatest weapon.
He has issued to me that awesome and terribly powerful Sword of the Spirit which is the Word of God. You may laugh, because you have yet to feel its sting, but remember Charles that with a sharp blade, the cut may not be felt immediately.
You think me arrogant. You think me foolish perhaps. You are frustrated that I dare continue to pray for you when you said you do not desire it. Oh, Charles. Take off the blindfold. You call us arrogant when unwittingly you are the very pot calling the kettle black.
My dear friend, if you could only see what I have seen! If you could only have such peace as we have! My God! Make this man see!
Don't chop off the hand that is reaching out to grasp you!
God save you Charles,. None of us will even try, it is not our prerogative, but His. If I could grab you by the shoulders when I said this I would. That is what the love of Christ does to people Charles. And you see it as arrogance.
Okay!:)
S.J. Walker-Thank you so much for giving the raw deal. That is what I am talking about!! Preach Preacher. Seriously good stuff SJ, after getting the Gospel all we can say is-OKAY-thanks brother in Christ' completed work..
Thank God; pray earnestly for our friend Charles.
The man least desiring a prayer for God's intersession in his life is the man needing it most. I was that man, and the woods were dark in those days until He put a torch in my path.
In Christ's Holy Name, God Bless you Mr. Horton. You are an encouragement to brothers.
And Lionel, my new found brother in the faith. You keep right on going bro. God Bless and keep you too, as only He can.
And finally, Charles. I know this is not over my friend. I dare say it is likely I will find little rest tonight. Fortunately for you, when I can't sleep, I pray.
Coincidence? I think not. May God speed your way to Him, and may He give you a torch like He did me not all that long ago, yet so long ago.
God be Praised.
Whoa!!! SJ & Tyris,
Understand that I only decreased myself because the discussion became too pointless. Clearly you couldn't understand the word I wrote which is why you kept putting words in my mouth. I saw the whole fight hate with kindness theory you portrayed and you portrayed it well. But, you respond as if I don't believe in God which is where you have me bent. The difference between those like me and those as yourself is, I have a more universal understanding of God while you think that God actually write books. But you continuously fail to realize that God (Creator of ALL) cannot be organized and cannot be edited by those God created. However, Man's understanding of God can allow these things to happen. As far as the Bible is concerned, it is a great BOOK of stories, poems and fairytales, with some great life lessons and nothing more.
For those that feel that they need to read the Bible to get a better understanding of God... that's cool, if that's what you feel is necessary. But I have studied the history of the bible with real theologians as opposed to you self-proclaimed theologians. I have listened to Jews, (the original authors) about the Old Testament and the fact that it was not meant to be taken literally. It really cracks the JEWS up how Christians repeatedly, misinterpreted the Old Testament which ultimately led to the creation of the New Testament. The author of Revelations (John) actually predicted that those events were to have come to pass, during his lifetime, which was before the Bible was even constructed, i.e. yet another example of its fallibility.
Yet you want to pray for me. How can you pray for me? What do you think this intersession from God is going to produce... a born again Christian...Really?
Come on Sam and Tyris, don't think I just some unhappy soul who’s pissed off at God because I don't want to go to church or because God didn't answer all of my prayers. You are sparring with someone whom knows about the Bible. My understanding is Universal. It is you with the limitations. Yet you want to pray for me. Well I'll tell you this, go ahead and pray for me if it makes you feel better. In the meantime, while meditating, I will respect the fact that you believe in the Bible, while I believe in the Creator... Try this: Study the History and the Creation of the Bible without prejudice
Ok Charles from the get go brother. I am and we have been asking for hardcore information. All you do is make thee shallow weightless claims with no proof or no direction as to where we can obtain this truth you have. Don't waste our time bro if you can't back up the claims you so ignorantly throw around. Show us the way man, we are wanting to know what you know. Don't leave us hanging this time bro. I know all the information you know regarding some of the Jews understanding of the old testament scriptures and that is controversial. please I ask again, give us some truth that we can obtain like you say you have and then we can go from there. Otherwise your claims and this small dialogue is just a waist.Love you bro, Tyris
Charles,
Firstly, before you go ans accuse us of claiming some sort of victory because you did not respond right away, you would do well to READ THE COMMENTS.
You completely ignored "And finally, Charles. I know this is not over my friend."
Don't brag about reading all your sources about theology when you can't read through comments.
Secondly,when you said this:
"Understand that I only decreased myself because the discussion became too pointless", you were simply using the same excuse for not responding back as before when you said:"I simply rested my case because none of you could prove me wrong."
But from what you give us, whenever someone presents their faith as it has been here--unshakable, that is when you back down. I know I am speculating, but it doesn't seem to fit in your character to "rest your case". Indeed, you seem as passionate to "disprove" the Bible as we are in the fact that it is undeniably authored by God through His Grace. Something doesn't fit. I haven't figured out just what yet. But there is something inconsistant.
Thirdly, you say I brought up the whole "fight hate with kindness". You completely misrepresent what I said, and what Tyris said. It would be more accurate to say we fight lies with Truth. And yes, the Truth is kinder than lies even though it is deadly sharp and the lies you believe about Universalism are dull and sweet to your unregenerate ears.
I dare say, the spiritual ears of unbelieving heart are so hung over from the unaware drunkenness of sin that when the Truth is played before them it sounds as clear violin to a drunk beggar in thew street. You say you can have more understanding and love because you believe in ambiguity as your God. The only words to describe this Charles is ridiculously impossible.
Greater understanding of an object is not attainable by staying back and saying "those two objects don't look any different to me". And don't try and come back with the classic "God is too big to put in a box". Indeed, we cannot do that. No one hear will deny that Charles. But we believe in the God of infinite proportions. You are learned, what does that mean? Infinity goes both directions when it come to the size of His comprehendable Being. That means that it can be simultaneously true that God is so terribly great in Majesty, comprehension, sovereignty, wisdom, and power that we cannot possibly attain but a glimmer of His totality; and that He is so incredibly infinite that He can Himself condescend to a level that finite man can be enabled to understand.
You, on the other hand, claim that we try and define the undefinable, and thus believe in a god not of infinity, but of chaos. The chaotic definition of your god goes in ALL directions without purpose or plan, without Grace or Mercy to its subjects. All, in going all directions, are alone and helpless. What a god you serve!
Forthly, you say: "But I have studied the history of the bible with real theologians as opposed to you self-proclaimed theologians."
You make a claim that you cannot back up Charles. What makes you say we have not studied? Who are your "real theologians"? By your definition of God as universal, anyone can study "god" right? That, by your own words, gives me or anyone the right to call myself a studier of "god"--a theologian. Now, are you right that there is a difference between you and me? Absolutely. But not like you think.
Fifthly,(if that is a word)you point out that the Jews laugh at what we believe about the Old and New Testaments. And all God's people said: duh. That is not new news to anyone here Charles.
Sixthly, (again making new words here, sorry Lionel) you claim that John's Revelations were indeed incorrect and thus rendering fallibility to the book itself. Yet, you ignore the very point you make about not taking the book literally. There is plenty more to disprove your argument but I think I'll just your own words do it for you.
Seventhly, You answered your own question about what am I going to pray for you. And right now, that seems like the stupidest thing to you. Indeed. That is where I must sheath my Sword again and let the Sword-maker do His work. To try to do more would truly be stupid.
Finally, you say:"In the meantime, while meditating, I will respect the fact that you believe in the Bible, while I believe in the Creator".
You do not know a thing about what I believe Charles. That much is obvious. You seem to think that I worship a book and not the Creator of it. I do not put stock in the book itself any more than "religion",l I put stock in what it SAYS, because it recounts what GOD SAID and STILL says to me today. I worship the God of Condescension, not chaos or universal bliss.
I am held to One view and thus can see much from there. That is not "prejudice". You hold to some views and thus, single out the One that doesn't fit you scheme. That is prejudice.
Okay Sam,
Here you go again, putting words in my mouth. Allow me to respond to what I can.
You said “…simply using the same excuse for not responding back as before when you said:"I simply rested my case because none of you could prove me wrong." I say… To this Day, none of you have proven me wrong about your way being the only way. Or that the Bible is authored by God and indeed infallible. This Sam, is why I rested my case on that particular blog.
YOU Said “…Thirdly, you say I brought up the whole "fight hate with kindness". You completely misrepresent what I said, and what Tyris said. It would be more accurate to say we fight lies with Truth.” Sam you left of the most important word “theory”. I Say… If you understand the word, then you already know that both of our examples, synonymously exhibit fighting something with the exact opposite.
You say you can have more understanding and love because you believe in ambiguity as your God. Okay Sam, Where exactly did I say this… really?
You, on the other hand, claim that we try and define the indefinable, and thus believe in a god not of infinity, but of chaos. Okay Sam, again, where exactly did I say this? Don’t get too desperate in your rebuttal.
What makes you say we have not studied? Okay, I’m sorry I didn’t ask. I’ll give you that.
Who are your "real theologians"? Well, real theologians study theologies. Not just Christian Theology… You did know that…right?
You said “…By your definition of God as universal, anyone can study "god" right? I Say, Sam, Let’s get something straight. I never defined God. I didn’t give God the body, the skin the color of bronze, hair like sheep’s wool, etc…
You Said, …That, by your own words, gives me or anyone the right to call myself a studier of "god"--a theologian… I say, You couldn’t be more wrong. First of all I would probably call a studier of God a “Godologian” though that is not a word. A theologian, study’s theologies, including but not limited to Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism, Taoism, Confucius (my Fav), Islam, etc… So you see Sam, you can probably call yourself a Christian Theologian, but that’ll probably sum it up for you.
You said,”…you point out that the Jews laugh at what we believe about the Old Testament (not new Testament. Christians wrote the New Testament)
You said “…I am held to One view and thus can see much from there. That is not "prejudice". You hold to some views and thus, single out the One that doesn't fit your scheme. That is prejudice. I say, There you go again trying to figure out where I am coming from. Let’s break down the word Prejudice. Prejudice means to pre-judge without proper knowledge. As I have studied these religions before forming an opinion, I cannot be prejudice. However, saying that Christianity is the “one True Faith” implies that all other faiths are not true. So with this in mind, who’s (religiously) Prejudice? Yeah, I thought so.
Tyris,
Get real, dude. That whole "Where is this hardcore evidence, blah blah blah, is played out. Aren't you still trying to figure out where Cain's wife/sister came from. Or better yet have you figured out how a city, that was predicted to have be destroyed to the size of a pebble, is one of today's most beautiful tourist attractions. You somehow say that the Jews understanding of the Old Testament is controversial... Tyris, they wrote the Old Testament how is their understanding controversial? Did you ever notice that Jew never try to interpret the New Testament? It's not about proof. It's about accepting thing for what they really are and not what you think they should be.
yo Charles. I am about sick of your weightless claims and your kiddish banter. Ok dude, how about we get on a conference call and you present what you believe and be ready to defend it from all of your research. me you sam,lionel and maybe some people in your camp? How about that bro? Then we can finally get beyond this electronic confusion. Can you defend what you beleive? I sure hope so, cause bro you make some ourtageous claims. What do you say Sam, Lionel? then we can look at the facts that you have charles. I am not one for apologetics(i am somewhat 1 pet 3:15-but I know salvation is totally of the Lord) but we God may use us(monergism) to bring you out of your daze. You know how to get at me and Lionel. Peace In Christ
Charles,
That was about the most disorganized rant I have seen in a while--and I've seen some doozies. Come off of it man!
I am so tempted to be drawn into a debate over what the rods "is" means or something like that. BTW, just for the record: theo is Greek for God, the second part comes from logos which is reasoning, or study. Theology is the study of GOD primarily, the study of other "theologies" is merely subsequent. A "self proclaimed theologian" like yourself, should know Greek better than that...
You said this: "Prejudice means to pre-judge without proper knowledge."
You have defined correctly. Then tell me most learned Charles, why you assume, that "However, saying that Christianity is the “one True Faith” implies that all other faiths are not true." It seems Charles that you assume, quite possibly preemptively that all religions MUST be right EXCEPT Christianity. Even though most will deny the validity of all others around them save a small cowardly few who cannot come to any summation whatsoever. By your correct definition of prejudice, we are in a way both guilty perhaps.
If I believe Christianity. Then I believe it is true and nothing else can be because all others contradict it. That is a plain fact. If I believe Islam, then I believe it is true and nothing else is, and so on and so on. I believe that Christianity IS the "one true Faith", otherwise I really don't believe it and am thus dishonest.
There are some, of whom you seem to be one, that would prefer to sit on the fence, as it were, and say either all are right or none are right and either way it doesn't really matter in the end. Deny it if you wish, but that is where your "thinking" will lead or has done so already.
You always argue that when we say that "Christ was all and that's all", we are saying you must agree with US or else. No, you must surrender to God or else. All mankind has sinned against Him, myself included, and He has had, and will have His vengeance in this life or the next. Period. Exclamation point.
You point out that the Jew wrote the Old Testament hence, they MUST know what it dictates. You seem to have read the whole thing, perhaps more than once, and you have no clue what it says so I find the truth that the Jews do not understand it quite possible. And BTW, men like Isaiah, Amos, Ezekiel ans so on knew exactly what the message was. It's people like who don't get it yet.
You said:"It's not about proof. It's about accepting thing for what they really are and not what you think they should be." Boy, you describe yourself so well Charles!
You think all should be equally right, even when all or at least most would have nothing of the kind. Even leaving out the fact that God IS GOD, that idea is completely idiotic.
No...it's just lost.
The fact that your frustration intensifies at the prospect that someone prays to The God of Heaven on your behalf is indicative of that same lostness Charles. I really don't care if you think this most ridiculous. It is an absurd thought for a man to consider himself hopelessly lost when all he sees is fresh green flowers and a world that he is content with for the most part.
The thing of it is Charles, when that light finally comes on, and you see behind the vast expanse of your sin before Christ, the things that for all those years you thought were indeed quite wonderful, like a universal god, an ambiguous concept of man's inherent goodness, and so on, they will be unrecognizable and quite horrendous and you will be shouting for joy that He plucked you from your little contented Hell.
I am not "putting words into your mouth" that. That is from my own experience. How much you miss. Take off those hideous glasses my boy and see. God save you Charles, you are as hopeless as I was, and yet He saved me, that is why I pray. I don't "want to be right", I want to be His, and I want you to be so also.
Tyris,
I'm game. What say you Charles?
Tyris & Sam,
I must say, I truly love you passion for the Christian Faith, but a conference call is just a bit ridiculous. As we are all firm in our belief and knowledge, any voice conversation would only end being people talking over one another and no one hearing anyone... and we all know this. When we respond electronically, other tend to read the word, thus hear the other person. However, we do have a choice of whether or not we read one comments. SJ, I chose not to read your last blog completely because you are too repetitive. I already knew what you were going to say before you posted. The one thing I did notice was, as you were non-debating, your responses kept getting longer and longer. This indicates that you are subconsciously trying to convince yourself... and not me. One thing I won't ignore is your self-described description of a Theologian. Understand, a theologian is described as someone who studies DIVERSE DENOMINATIONS from many cultures. They are the professors of God. Most theologians are found in seminaries -- religious schools -- studying religious TEXTS and passing on what they learn to others. Notice the CAPITALIZED words. Like I said, you may be a Christian Theologian, but that's it. We are on two completely separate plains here. I have been where you are as I was once a Christian (20yrs). But until you have studied beyond the bible and studied the commonalities of world religions, your Christian understanding has limited you to that narrow comfort zone that you represent so well. May God continue to Bless you both in the name of Jesus.
Charles,
Don't bless in the name of Someone you don't believe in as God Supreme. That is insulting to more than a simple little Christian like me. It mocks God...dangerous ground.
And finally,
"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it."
"Jesus said, I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No man comes to the Father but by me."--Not Confucius. Period.
I may be a Christian Theologian only. And to that I say "THANK GOD!". There is only One worth His time invested in me.
Baptists, Methodists, Prespyterians, etc are DENOMINATIONS. Shiites and Sunnis are different DENOMINATIONS.
Christianity, Budhism, Islam, Hinduism, Mormonism are completely different and separate RELIGIONS. They, none of them, worship the same God. Absolutely not. Some similarities in various theological concepts and even practices does not make them the same and certainly does not make their "god" the same.
Christianity says that the only way to redemption is CHRIST. The best anyone else does is say He was a good teacher. Not even close.
Oh, and this is just for you guys:
http://christianresearchnetwork.com/?p=4181
We must pursue peaceful ends through peaceful means."
- Martin Luther King, Jr.
Sam,
Your quoting Matthew 7:13 is well aimed but misguided. This isn't the gate to heaven that is being refered to. This is more of a life guide, you know, follow the straight and narrow path to a fulfilling life. Things like, Obey your parents, get an Education, raise your family... as opposed to doing what you want, exhibiting laziness, involving yourself with anyone and/or anything.
"Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them."
I say may God continue to bless you in the Name of Jesus.
Where in the Bible is God saying this? Nowhere,... Okay and how am I mocking God?
I said it once, and I say it again, May God continue to bless you in the name of Jesus. Just recieve it.
Charles I have been on many phone debates and no one talks over anyone. We are adults not children. I thought since we cannot get any hardcore evidence of the god you serve on here, I thought we would give you a fair chance to better articulate your beleifs since you are unable to do so on here. Wasn't trying to intimidate you, just wanted to have you teach us little ole' Christians the real deal and stop leaving us in the dark. LOL Love you bro!! God Bless brother. LOL
Mr. Horton,
Thanks for the invite, but I must decline. Any phone conversation will not be too different from our electronic conversation. However, as I am compelled to say that I do not know it all. If I appear to be all knowing, then I have truly misrepresented myself. I know what I have studied, read and been exposed to. But, with this knowledge of mine, I share it in a prideful manner. I am no better than a foolishly prideful person. I guess you could say, I am convicted:)
--The light from heaven is about to break upon us...to give light to those who sit in darkness, and to guide us to a path of peace...
I have in my posession knowledge not found in the Bible, and a sense of peace found in ones own understanding. Most will not understand it, some will laugh and taunt. But know that I have a relationship with God that is everlasting. On the same note I understand you too have a relationship with God that you hold dear to your heart. I'll leave it at that.
--"You must be the change you
wish to see in the world."
-- Mahatma Gandhi
Peace and Love
Like I said bro, it would not be like that. But if you decline, no problem. We just last saturday had a phone (conference)converstation hosted by Stand Up ministry and the basis was Romans 14. It was smooth conversation. It was 42 people on the conference call and we did fine. They were from all across the country. This helps build relationships and things can come to a better understanding. Somewhat like me and Lionel. Me and Lionel met over the net. Talked, and then met in person. Lionel would not be my best friend if we had never dialogued. Me and Lionel differ on a couple of issues believe it or not and we debate all the time in a loving manner. We are not ignorant or unlearned charles, you say you used to be like us, but we all know better and say we used to be like you-without hope. Christ dragged us to HIM and now we see. I know sounds cheesy right! LOL The thought of talking on a phone conversation was not to murder you theologicaly like we have been doing-LOL-but to build a relationship beyond electronic communication. No superficiality here bro. We are in this for the long haul and we absolutely see nothing else except Christ. God Bless
Charles,
When you said "I have in my posession knowledge not found in the Bible, and a sense of peace found in ones own understanding."
My dear man, why do you think the Word said this:
"Trust in the LORD with all your heart,
And lean not on your own understanding;
In all your ways acknowledge Him,
And He shall direct your paths."
Charles, Charles, don't you see.You haven't been given understanding. There is none outside of Christ and Him crucified. None! I don't care what you have lead yourself to believe. It is nothing new or special. It is simply as lost as anyone else trying to "make it" on their own. Get Ghandi and Confucius out of your man!
God does not require niceness to come before Him. He requires Newness.
Lord, remove our scales of pride in our "own understanding". We are pathetic in comparison to Your Holiness.
God save you Charles.
And Charles,
You couldn't be more wrong about Matthew 7. Sorry. But that doesn't hold a drop of water. Just read down to verses 21-23.
You know SJ, I'm going try a different approach. Why? Well it seems that both of us are ignorant regarding each other. It's amazing how I write something in plain english, and you continue to take it out of context in order to fit your understanding of me. You think I follow Confusius because I said it was my favorite religion to Study. Let me clarify something for you, I have and continue to study Religions, mainly for entertainment purposes. I only follow Gods will for me. You don't have to accept this as it is not important to me. If you feel I am serving a God that is different from your perception of God, then okay, that's fine with me. I trust my relationship with God enough to not be threatened or shook whenever I encounter someone with a different view.
For the most part, people don't choose their religion, they are born into it. Those who are not born into it, seek it. Those who seek it, find it. They find it because the believe that there is a "Higher Power", and the want to give some form of praise to their creator.
Sam, Tyris, if you were both born into Islam, chances are our conversations would be different regarding Christianity. You both have the same passion for Allah (GOD). But you found Christianity instead. It is a part of who you are. So instead, you have Passion for Jesus. It's too bad that we can't see each others Soul. If we could, everyone would see that we are no different than each other. We are all human, We all have a Creator, and we all want to honor our creator. You have chosen the path of Christianity and no one can take that path away from you. So, why try to take someone's path from them? You can't.
This is courage… to bear unflinchingly what heaven sends."
- Euripedes
Allah is not, I repeat not God. No ifs ands or buts.
I think the key here Charles is that I was NOT born into Islam. And I firmly believe, that I, Samuel Joseph Walker, would have been called out of that just as I was called out of the worship of myself and my own understanding. The choice was not mine Charles.
There is one thing I notice. You say you believe on God. How? Why? To what end? You "believed" Him for 20 years until you saw something more appealing outside of Scripture, by your own admission.
How do you believe Him now, as He is so Universally defined by so many different and mutually exclusive creeds as Islam and Christianity? Answer a question for once and tell me how you believe in something that when you are honest is self contradicting?
Why do you believe in god that is so loose. What kind of a god is so lax as to let you believe something so absolutely contradictory to what I believe, yet we believe in the same person? Excuse me?! How naive do you think I am? And much more than that, how naive and contemptibly weak do you think the One Who created all from nothing is? What you say about him makes no sense in relation to what a "god" is.
One of the intrinsic characteristics of God is that in being such, He is worshiped unwaveringly by His subjects. If you are a subject of Him, how do you worship. I'm not asking what you do on Sundays or whatever. That is not in itself worship. How do view, describe, and love your god.
From what I've seen. There is nothing worthy of worship in God. You consent he made us. Big deal. You consent there is and perhaps even that He is a "higher power"--which indicates by it's wording that it is open to conceive that he may not be the highEST power. But I digress.
By the description of god that you have sort of given in your own vague and illusive way, he usn't much to behold. That is, he is nothing more than a set of "life guide"s--your words. I know you were speaking of a particular Biblical concept, but though you don't believe it. When you said that, you said it of God too because those were Hos words and you mocked Him by your trivializing of them.
Finally, there is a great difference between you and me Charles. And I can take no credit for it. The only difference is the Grace of God that you have yet to surrender to.
Get rid of that proud, "educated" fakery you have been sold! Until then my dear man, we are literally worlds apart. I do not wish it to remain such. I cannot say I love and NOT disturb someone else's view if it be not Biblical and under the Grace of God. I cannot take credit for my salvation, and you cannot blame me for the burning to see others(like you) saved, the insatiable desire to witness Him perform the same miracle He did on me.
God save you Charles.
Your words:
...". And don't try and come back with the classic "God is too big to put in a box". Indeed, we cannot do that. No one hear will deny that Charles. But we believe in the God of infinite proportions... Infinity goes both directions when it come to the size of His comprehendable Being. That means that it can be simultaneously true that God is so terribly great in Majesty, comprehension, sovereignty, wisdom, and power that we cannot possibly attain but a glimmer of His totality...
Your words, not mine. God Is Good.
Sam, I am going to get back to my life now. I'm not sure what your ultimate purpose was, but if it is victory via the last word, then you can have it. I only used your words because obviously you don't understand mine, which is probaly the reason why you keep addding your own words to mine.
Also, Gandhi was a wise man. He was indeed a gift and he was indeed loved by God. Just like you.
"Like the bee gathering honey from the different flowers, the wise person accepts the essence of the different scriptures and sees only the good in all religions."
If we had more wise people, there wouldn't be so many wars going on right now.
So Sam, go ahead. Have the last word and win what ever it is you are obviously competing for. I find comfort knowing that you will continue to be blessed in the name of Jesus.
Oh, Charles. If you could only see why I am here. If you had only finished reading the words that followed what you quoted. You have no idea, yet.
If you think I am here to "win an argument" to "have the last word", you are indeed blind and have my pity and brokenhearted prayers.
Know that you ARE in my prayers and those of Tyris, Lionel, and many others. Don't trust your great wisdom to ensure your approval and survival. Surely, it will fail. Mine did and would have continued to do so.
"Love may forgive all infirmities and love still in spite of them: but Love cannot cease to will their removal."--C.S. Lewis
Post a Comment